NaXum Reviews: Relationships That Last A Lifetime With Top Talent | Direct Selling Open Forum
Posted by naxumadmin / August 24, 2021
Field leaders that run with your company for the long-term are the lifeblood of any direct selling organization.
On Friday, August 20th, 2021 we hosted 3x executives sharing their insights for our Direct Selling Executives Forum.
On the panel we’ll have:
Kevin Crandall, VP of Sales @Shaklee
David Fleming, CSO @Norwex
Michael Hutchinson, Founder @inCruises
We’ll be asking them these questions:
1) What are two qualities you look for in a top field leader?
2) When motivating and growing your companies, what are your favorite ways to communicate and interact with top field leaders?
3) What do you define as your secret sauce for motivating people(who already have their financial needs met) to continue to dig deep to grow the company?
4) What is your favorite way to celebrate victories?
5) If you could go back to January 1st, 2020 and tell yourself one sentence, what would you say?
REPLAY
Transcript
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
All right, ladies and gentlemen, we’re just kicking off our feeds. Welcome to the Direct Selling Executives Open Forum, Friday, August 20th, 2021. Today, I get the opportunity to introduce you to some of our speakers. We’re going to be having a discussion around relationships that last a lifetime with top talent.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
If this is your first time attending a Direct Selling Executives Forum online event, be sure to join the community on LinkedIn, if you haven’t already. That’s the primary community, or the group on Facebook, to participate. If you have questions or thoughts during the session, feel free to post them below in the chat, but we have a set agenda of questions today.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
So as I introduce our speakers, and kick off the panel that we have today, I’m just really excited about who we have here together. Sparking this discussion is actually the first one I’ll introduce, is Mr. Kevin Crandall, who’s VP of sales at Shaklee. Kevin and I were having a conversation, gosh, two and a half months ago, catching up, and we were just speaking about how this has changed so much over the years, of how we actually work through relationships with top talent.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
And I said, you know what? That needs to be a panel topic. And who should we invite to that panel? And immediately, as the fireworks go off overhead, I was like, “Oh, I got to get Mike Hutchinson out there from inCruises, because you’re such a relationship guy with your field.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
And then, just to get Dave, of course, from the work you did at LifeVantage, and then Norwex, it just made a lot of sense to bring this panel together. So I’m super grateful to introduce everyone today.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
We’ll do brief introductions. Today’s style of intro is going to be the one thing you may not know. So the one thing you may not know about Mr. Dave Fleming, Chief Sales Officer at Norwex is that he speaks Chinese. Holy cow, this guy, Mandarin Chinese. So that’s going to be a story-
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
That’s true.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
That’s going to be a story in itself right there, of how you pulled that off, man, what a journey.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
And one thing you may not know of Kevin Crandall, Mr. Head of Sales over at Shaklee, is that he actually used to work with Dave years ago, so that’s a little bit of a small world. But seriously, there’s actually a bunch of Shaklee reps that go to church with me, and they’ve told me that that Kevin is the nicest guy in the whole world, is literally the title they’ve bestowed on Kevin, which was funny that the first time we met …
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
And the one thing you may not know about Mike Hutchinson, founder of inCruises, and how they’ve grown their brand in the last five years, all across the world, is that actually prior to founding his own direct sales company, and this journey, in an earlier life ran worldwide sales for Anthony Robbins’ organization for over eight plus years in the space.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
So you got a lot of folks on the line who have been in direct sales for decades, some who have joined from other industries, and it’s going to be a great conversation here on this perspective today. So thank you everybody for being here.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Let’s jump right in and maximize our time. I’m going to ask Dave to kick us off, and we’ll go around. So the first question we have is, when you think about today, 2021, and just the world we’re in right now, what are the two top qualities you look for in a top field leader?
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
That’s a great question. And as you might expect, narrowing it down to two is not an easy thing to do. But to answer your question, and to keep it to two, the two things that I value right now in 2021, one, is optimism, because, we’ve been … well, we’re still going through an incredibly weird time, unlike anything we’ve ever experienced before. And what I found is that the leaders who are optimistic about life, about their business, about all of the things going on, understanding that things are going to work out. It may not work out the way we expected it to, it may not quite fit the plan that we have in our mind, but it’s so important to their success.
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
And then the second one, which is just as important, in my mind, if not maybe more important, is something I call grit. And I’ll talk to my team about that. Things pop up, challenges happen, and you can see in the successful leaders that they are unflappable when it comes to getting through those challenges. And to me, it’s grit, it’s the ability to look down the barrel of a problem and not be afraid of it, and say, “We’re going to get through it. And it might be tough, and it might be a big challenge in my life, but I’m going to get through it.”
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
I think, of all the positive qualities that our leaders do display, those two have been just super critical, especially this last year.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
You know what I love about you sharing grit?
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
And just for format, if you haven’t spoken on the panel before, you can jump in, Hutch and Kevin, if you want to comment on anything Dave says, and as we go around, know that you can comment just as much as I do as moderator, there’s no etiquette in that. It’s literally, if we could hang out and have coffee together, and just talk about these things, that’s exactly what we want to do here in the short time we get together.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
But when you say grit, Dave, the one thing that I think about a lot, that we talk about, is people who actually can zoom out to understand a long-term journey, instead of just living in that total moment where like, “Oh, this is all it is. And oh my Lord,” the sirens are going off every moment of their day, of living by their emotions and circumstances, instead of this bigger vision of like, “Hey, it’s a journey.” Is that what you’re encompassing a lot when you say grit?
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
Yeah, that’s absolutely part of it. Especially in businesses, it’s so easy to fall victim to the last conversation you had. And if it was really positive, everything’s going great, I can’t be stopped. But if it was on the other side of the spectrum, not so positive, it can derail a leader who doesn’t have that long-term vision, or just that grit that, “I am going to achieve, no matter what.” And that’s the difference that I see between some top performing leaders and some that don’t quite get to that level.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
One thing to throw out, team, if you have leaders struggling with grit, there’s a really great book by Ryan Holiday called The Obstacle is the Way. We put a bunch of team members through this year on our side, and Obstacles is the Way is a powerful book that talks about how it’s okay, hard things are going to show you how to get through them, like let’s not expect it to be easy. We have lots of those lines of direct sales from Jim Rohn and others of, “Don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better,” and all that. But The Obstacle is the Way is a solid book, just from a lot of moments in history you can learn from. It’s a great audio book. And that could be helpful for you have a leader struggling with grit in their life.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
And a second one, if you’re not afraid of harsh language would be David Goggins’ Can’t Hurt Me, if you’re used to piles of F-bombs. But a man getting past horrible situations. You will call your parents and tell them they were the best parents you ever had after listening to Can’t Hurt Me, no matter how challenging your childhood was, because this guy had the worst childhood than anyone you’ve ever met.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
He was a Navy Seal, failed buds, the Navy Seal bootcamp, three times, or failed it two times, passed a third time, in one year. And had lost over 100 pounds to even get into it. And talks about all the challenges, and his life never ends with challenges. And so two books that are just really helpful audios to share with those leaders that are struggling with grit.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
All right, Hutch, let’s jump over to you next. What are some of the … I mean, man, you’ve seen change. You talk about COVID, you’re in a travel business. I mean, holy cow, talk about change in your world. It wasn’t like, for Norwex, or for Shaklee, you couldn’t make product fast enough during COVID. People are like, “I need more vitamins, I need to clean my home better, I need the healthy detergent,” for our other two speakers.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
You had a very opposite experience, just because of your nature of your product, folks were canceling cruises during that time. So what have you seen? And now, when they’re all coming back, and now everyone’s like, “I got to get out of my house, I need to travel,” so it’s come back around.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
But for you, Hutch, what would you say are the two qualities you’re looking for these days?
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
Well, first of all, I just want to say thank you, Ben, for having me. Honored to be here with you, and grateful to be with Dave, and good to meet somebody that speaks Chinese, that’s fantastic. And it’s also neat to meet the second nicest guy in the world, and that’s Kevin. Dave and Kevin seem to be great colleagues. I was thinking Dave was going to say he’s looking for a stud bull. I mean, that picture that he has behind him says it all. At any rate, great responses.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
No, you’re right, Ben, this year has been the worst downturn in the history of travel, bar none. And so that quality we’ve looked in our top leaders is a growth mindset. You just have to look for the beauty, the lesson, the adversity, honor the struggle. So the first would be a growth mindset.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
And then secondly, just that same attribute that you want at any level within your organization, which is just somebody that’s hungry, somebody that, in spite of … And Dave nailed it, you got to have that grit, you got to have that fortitude, you have to have that resiliency to get through the down times. And so I think somebody that’s determined, somebody that’s hungry, again, whether they’re a top leader or somebody just starting, I’d rather have somebody that’s hungry and poor, but smart, and we can help them on my team at whatever level, more than anything else.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
We call that internally the wants it factor. Do they want it? When you think of hungry, there’s a good book Gino Wickman out of Michigan wrote, Traction, years ago as a regular business operation procedures manual. You’ve probably read it as executives. And he talks about, do your people get it? Do they want it? And do they have the capacity to do it?
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
A lot of times when we talk about leadership, I guess we think about, oh, skills, and how do we give them the capacity to do their skills? And you forget this, like, well, do they even get it? Do they get … It’s not their traditional job. Do they get what they’re supposed to be doing? And then, do they want it? Do they really want it now that they know what it is? And that’s a really great point when you unpack that for a moment. That’s strong.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
How about for you, Kevin? You’re in your role. Out of roles for everybody, this is something you do on a daily basis for Shaklee. You’re the one speaking into a lot of leaders lives from the company. What would you say you’ve seen in this time?
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
Yeah, no, it is a difficult time, as Ben mentioned. But one of the things that, as Dave talked about, grit, that’s one of the words that I really like, and I use quite often. But I think a word that I even like a little bit more, that actually feeds grit, is courage. Because courage is that muscle that you have to exercise every single day. You have to go through this process.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
And I think this year taught us that courage is something that we must all possess at different levels. Some of us are trying to figure out how we can navigate the difficulties, and others are trying to figure out how to help other people through that process. And sometimes I look at specifically a time like this, and people who are afraid of failure, that’s almost like a disability in a lot of ways, is that fear of allowing that to overcome, and take us, and keep us from achieving our greatness and what we see of ourselves.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
And so I really like courage as a part of grit, because I think, as I said, it does fuel that grit. And it does give us opportunities to continue to work, and develop and grow. And I loved what you said, Ben, as you built off of what Dave shared, is that people who are gritty, they’re also people who are focused on long-term. They have that long-term objective, and I love what you said, that they see the bigger picture.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
And I think that’s what we’re trying to talk to people about, specifically through the difficult times, is what is this teaching us, and how can we learn from this? Because the opposite of success is not failure. The opposite of success is complacency, it’s not allowing ourselves to get out of our way, and to grow, and to step those one or two steps into courage that can help to define us. We’re only as good as we’re willing to allow ourselves to be.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
So I think that courage really feeds that grit, it really gives us an opportunity to look beyond our current situations. What’s the bigger picture, and how can we grow from this?
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
We’ve shifted, as an older company, into doing a lot of things virtually, which is something we weren’t doing going into this time. And so we’ve been able to have flexibility. And I think that’s the other word that I would look for in a leader, someone who’s flexible, willing to learn, willing to grow. Leaders are always learning, they’re always looking for ways to grow, and to develop and expand their own opportunities.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
And so I think someone who has courage, and someone who’s flexible are two qualities of leadership, that really, for this time, is important. The courage to go through difficulty, and to learn from that, and to grow. And the flexibility to be able to learn different things, to learn other skills, to skill up, and look for opportunities to actually do things that you didn’t know you had in you, that you can do more than what you’re maybe thinking of yourself. So I think those are two things.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
And that’s one of the best gifts you can give your field leadership, is in inviting them to step into something they didn’t even know was possible for themselves, and you just send it their way. Because there’s so much more available for all of us. People play … the biggest game they play is what they believe is possible for themselves each time. So until you open up the door of something bigger, that’s as far as they’re ever going to go.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
One thing on long-term vision that’s helpful, a story, team, from just what Kevin just shared, I don’t know if it’s true, it could be a fable, but I was told as a young person that Adolf Hitler, when he designed the Nazi regime, had planned out a thousand years of his vision for the future.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
And you sat there and said, “If someone for evil could plan a thousand years in a vision, well, what can I do for good for my family, and for my circle of influence in my world?” And say, “Well, how far ahead am I looking? Am I living my life today in stewardship thinking about what I’m creating for my family, or my children, my grandchildren?” And those things can mean a lot.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
And when you start to get to these field leaders that are past some of those regular living needs income levels, and you’re like, “Well, why go further? Why not just call it a day and enjoy this income? Well, will it always be there if you put the brakes on? I don’t know if it will.” You start to have those real conversations that could be very helpful.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Next, let’s actually go right back to you, Kevin. When working on your goals, and growing companies, what are some of your favorite ways to communicate and actually … This is more of a practical question. How do you like to actually interact with top field leaders? There’s no right or wrong answer to this, and there’s a lot of different styles in the space, so how do you actually choose to interact with top field leadership?
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
I think, first and foremost, you just have to be consistent. We’re creatures of habit, we like to get things at certain times, and so be consistent in that approach.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
And over-communicate is kind of the way I like to do it. Because what I’ve found is that people are busy, they have busy minds. And so if you think you’ve done enough, you probably haven’t, you probably need to do a few more steps in the communication pipeline to get them the information they need, because people are busy, they only pick up the information that they need at that time. And next week it may change. And the following week, it may change after that.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
So I think from a consistency approach, one of the things I love to do is create task forces based off of what people are passionate about. There’s people who are passionate about compensation, there’s people passionate about onboarding and how to get somebody started off on the right foot, to have some early success, to answer some simple questions. Can I do this? Is it worth it? Can I make money? There are people passionate about that, so creating a task force of people who have that commitment and passion to help people at that level. People are passionate about products, and product awareness, and how they can share that, and really talk about the sizzle, but do it in a way that represents wholeness and goodness. So I think the key is the task forces.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
But then with your top leadership, I think it’s just that consistency of being, not only on a monthly Zoom call, where you’re giving them information so that they have that preparation to go share with their teams, so they have it a little bit early … I found that works well so that they know how to strategy and structure what they can do with their teams. Not only do you do it there, we follow up with email, we follow up in Facebook groups, so that there’s an ongoing dialogue, there’s a step.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
Things get missed, people misunderstand it the first time, and so it’s important to have that consistency of communication, and have those channels that people feel confident in, they can plug in, there’s a trust there that the dialogue is going to be shared professionally. Some people aren’t going to receive all the communications in a good way. But I think just that consistency, knowing where they can go get the information, and being transparent and open, so that they feel like they’re bought in, that they understand.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
And for me, it always starts with the why. If you go into what we’re doing, and how we’re doing it, before you ever show why you’re doing it, I think that causes people to have that … they put up barriers, they put up those shields to say, “Wait a minute, I need to know how this impacts me before I can share it with others.” The why, to me, is crucial. So the why, being consistent, and then giving them a platform to plug in and feel that there’s trust and that they can have that ongoing dialogue.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
So just as a practical question, when you think of like they’ve ranked up, they’re in this platform of, just for example, of a monthly Zoom, how big are those Zooms? Is it a Zoom where they’re just getting spoken to, or do they feel like they can actually have a conversation back and forth in the Zoom, because there’s not 300 people on the line? There’s always this magical balance there of, okay, do we have a Zoom which is these ranks and above, and we just keep it there so we can actually have a conversation? Or is it more of us presenting to them, so it’s these ranks and down? What have you seen has been effective in your world?
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
Yeah, and I think you have to use both of them. So some of the top leadership, there’s a larger group of people, and so I feel like that’s more of a, let’s talk to you about the highlights, let’s have that dialogue, let’s walk you through some of the information, so that you’re aware of the information.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
But then from there, break it down into smaller groups. And that’s why I like to use those task forces to utilize those breakout rooms and the breakout sessions, so that you can have that open dialogue with the group. So I think both of those work, both tactics are important.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
But I also feel that what we’ve seen is, specifically with Zoom and the chat feature, there’s a lot of times where you can see that, “Hey, this is something that we’re going to have to pivot a little bit on, and we’re going to maybe have to go into a taskforce situation, or we’re going to have to set up a time where there is more of a Q&A type of a conversation based on a topic.”
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
Yeah, because large groups are hard. It can take you in a completely different direction, and you lose the important information that you’re trying to share in that situation. So I think both, and really understanding what message you’re delivering, and what’s important. Is it a smaller group, where you can give feedback? Or is it a larger group, where it is more presenting to?
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
And you’re right, there’s no right or wrong. It’s just trying to figure out what makes sense for your group. We’ve got a larger field, an older field, and so we feel like we have to do some variability in how we approached it to maybe some of the younger leadership companies out there. So I think it’s important just to know the field, and react to them, and what makes sense for them.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Yeah, it’s exciting to hear the different cultures. How about for you, Hutch? What have you found to be effective with the different leaders around the world?
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
I would echo everything Kevin said. He said it extremely well. I mean, any and all opportunities to have that connected conversation with that top leader, you want to take advantage of. I liken myself as a very approachable CEO, and so I’m on direct chat with all my top leaders. And so, at any point they want to reach out, or I’ve got something, I’ll send it out to them. And so that’s probably the most effective way.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
And as CEO, I have to listen. I have to be in a position of authority, but I can’t be an authoritarian. They have to know that I love them, by listening, and by asking questions I create that connected conversation.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
I will point out that, as important as it is to communicate, we’ve created our own video conferencing platform. We may be the only direct selling company on the planet that has built a video conferencing platform in every partner’s back office. And so we hold that to such a high importance that we built it on our own. So we don’t use Zoom, we have our own platform.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
And then, alternatively, we have also built our own “WhatsApp” platform. So we’re in, like these other gentlemen on the call, we’re in close to 190 plus countries, and our site is in 17 languages. And so that ability to have simultaneous translation, simultaneous conversations, is what’s most important. And when you’re competing with the messengers, and the Facebooks, and Instagrams, we decided to build our own chat communication tool.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
So again, I just echo everything that Kevin said, he said it brilliantly. We’ve just done everything we could to create that connected conversation. And like these guys, you have to be in a place where you’re approachable, and that you listen, and make yourself available.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Hutch, there’s a question that comes up for people when they share some of the stuff you just shared. Like I know from other owners, or people we serve, they’ll say like, “Well, at what level do you make yourself available as CEO to some people?” Is it a certain rank, where you’re like, “Hey, now you get access to ask questions to, Hutch,” or is it that they’ve shown up in other ways? What have you found to be helpful there? Because it is a large team.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
Our top two ranks, I’m on direct communication with each and every one of them. And then at that third highest rank, while I don’t have them in a group chat, Ben, there are those leaders that I do have access to on a one-on-one basis.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Practical.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
Yeah. I’d love to be able to spend the time with everybody, I have to love everybody on my team, but I only, unfortunately, fortunately, get to spend quality time with those that deserve my time. And so top two highest ranks, I’m on direct, call it hot phone, with each and every one of them. And then others, I’m not.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Sure. Awesome. Thanks for sharing.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
How about you, Dave? When you think of communication styles, and methods of interacting with top field leaders, you’ve been in a bunch of different cultures of organizations, what are you like today now running at Norwex?
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
Yeah. I’ve always believed that interactivity with the leaders is what really ultimately drives success in the business. So Hutch said, beautifully, that you’ve got to be connected to your top leaders. And that communication is a little bit different than when you’re just informing the entire field. I think Kevin also nailed it, like you wish you could take every idea, but you can’t, and you can’t be one on one with every single consultant that you have in your team. There’s not much more I can add to that.
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
I would just say, from a tactical perspective, meeting their team, like where they are, and that consistency. Sometimes you have to have tough conversations, and you have to earn the right to have that conversation through consistency over time. You can’t show up to have the tough conversation, and it’s the first time that your top leaders have heard from you in six months. That doesn’t work in our business super well.
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
We don’t have the advantage of our own video conferencing platform at Norwex, and so we use other third-party providers, but we try to meet the consultants where they are. If they’re on Facebook a lot, then we try to message them through Facebook, and meet them where they are, rather than trying to force them into a different venue to get the information across. And that’s really just a practical solution to where we are these days. But I think it’s also important just to recognize where you’re communicating with your leaders, it’s just as important as how frequently, and what, and why.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
And are they there, Dave? That’s the thing I always ask. Like you don’t know if … Most people have a primary messaging tool they believe in, in their life. For some of us, it’s email. For some of us, it’s Facebook messenger. For some of us, it’s LinkedIn. And you don’t always know, because there’s always one that they let pile up all week, and they answer it once on Fridays before they call it a weekend. And then there’s the others that they’re checking every day, all the time.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
And so that’s a really good note for everybody, Dave, to think about with your top, top leadership, is sometimes you got to be like, “Yeah, these are my folks I message on LinkedIn when I need something. And these are the ones I message on Facebook, or Instagram DM, because it’s just where they are.” So being where they are is a really important note when you’re doing the personal one-on-one stuff.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
I was just going to share quickly, I track all the contacts from my team, and how we’re interacting. And I was just doing some stats the other day, and 80% are through some social channel, through Facebook messenger, through Instagram. I mean, that’s where those ongoing conversations are. People are multitasking, because, like I said, they’re busy. And so it’s like, “Hey, I can interact with my sales team, and I can also interact with my leadership team.” And so that’s interesting that we’ve shifted complete to more of a social handle channel for communication.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Yeah, no, it’s a good note.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
For this next one, team, let’s move to Hutch first. Hutch, I’m excited to hear your thoughts on this. Our third panel question today is, what would you define as the secret sauce for motivating people? And the caveat is, the ones who already have their financial needs met, to continue to dig deep and do the work to grow the company.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
Yeah. I’d say two answers. Number one, just to be that role model, to be that example, to be that role model of possibility. I tell my team all the time, “I have nothing to prove in this world except to improve and to get better.” And so it starts with me, by not what I say, but what I do.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
I never ever will tell my team to do something that I either haven’t done or do myself. I keep a gratitude journal. I’m taking notes today in this daily gratitude journal. I’m grateful to be in the energy of you, Ben, and the brilliance of Dave and Kevin, guys that have years of experience beyond what I ever have. And so I think being in that place of gratitude, and being a role model.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
And at the same time, because I focus on being that role model, I also have that ability to challenge my team. That’s the second secret sauce, is I challenge my leaders. I just say, “Hey, listen, bro, come on. Really? You’ve given back to your community as much as you think you can? Seriously?” So I will lovingly get in their face and challenge them to grow, be better than they were today than they were yesterday.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
But that ultimately starts with me being that example of growth. And again, I have nothing to prove except to improve and to get better. And as long as I am humble enough to admit that I’m not where I want to be, but thank goodness I’m not where I used to be, then that creates positive momentum with my team.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Awesome. I love that. I’ve seen it over the years, a lot of time in smaller direct sales companies, you get an owner or an executive who’s just thinks, “Now that we’re at 5 million a month in revenue, I’ve hit all my goals and dreams.” And so they just buy the boat, and stop doing all the things, and they’re the, I call them the passive owner now, “Oh, I hired that executive from the headhunting service, and I’m out.”
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
And then you meet people who are still in the game when no one asked them to be, as owners. So it’s a different … It’s fun to have Hutch on the line as an owner, and we have people who are executives in the team, because there is something so attractive about owners that are having the time of their life doing this thing just because it’s fun and they’re loving it.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
And you can feel that in and out of any organization of, is this executive team here because they want to be here? And back to what Kevin shared way earlier about your why, like do they actually believe that why, or is that something they print on T-shirts? That’s the question, did they just print that thing on the hats and hand it out at convention, or are they actually on a mission to do that hard and scary BHAG goal thing? Yeah, that’s good.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Kevin, what would you say is the secret sauce you’ve seen?
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
That’s a great question. It’s one of my favorite questions. Shaklee is 65 years, so we’ve got an older leadership group, and so these are ongoing conversations that I’m having, and it’s a fun conversation.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
I love that role model aspect. As I look at that journey from the startup to some type of advanced growth, what does that look like, between startup and growth? That’s where you achieve that first why. That’s where you start to build that confidence. You start to get a little bit of posture knowing what you have is something that no one else can take away, their opinions, their approval of you doesn’t matter. You’re kind of anchored in into that why or that purpose.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
And usually that first why is something of a financial nature. If I do this, I can do that. If I achieve this, I can get that.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
I think the next one is even more important. It’s going from growth to advanced growth. In that stage of the journey, there’s actually five, the fourth is plateau, and the fifth is decline. And I think the important thing between growth and advanced growth is skilling up.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
And so what I’ve found with some of the older leaders is, let’s look at your purpose. Has it changed? Has it been modified over these years? How do you get a deeper identity of who you are and what you’re trying to create?
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
Secondly, do your skills change? And do you need to skill up? I mean, this world has taught us in the last year and a half, yes, people need to skill up. They need to be flexible, as I said before, and they need to figure out ways to do the business in a different climate, a different environment. So continually to skill up.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
The third one is to not change the way you communicate. You still have to communicate, but you have to be active, and you have to scope in that area. So that first why becomes a new why.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
And what I found, when people were able to do that skilling up, they get into the place of advanced growth, and they go from growth to advanced growth, the why becomes more of pride. Not a pride in a selfish way, but in a way of seeing other people achieve what you’ve created. That you now have a legacy of growth, and a legacy of accomplishment, and now you’re helping people move through their stages from startup to growth, to advanced growth, and achieving the things that you’ve done.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
We tell people all the time, incentive trips are great. Right, Hutch, cruises? It’s great to travel, but why do it alone? Do it with people that you want to see success in. And so for me, that’s second why, that new why, is almost more important. It’s like, how can you leave a legacy? How can you leave an imprint on these people who want to achieve what you’ve achieved?
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
And I see it all the time, these young leaders coming into our company, they’re like, “I want to have what this person has, who’s done it for 40 years. Who are still a big part of the growth of the company.” Because it becomes that feeling of accomplishment that I can help other people experience what I’ve experienced.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
I think that becomes a secret sauce, because I’m big on internal more than external motivation all the time. You have to really develop yourself. And when you see success in others, that’s when that pride, and that feeling of, “Yeah, I’ve helped other people experience what I’ve experienced,” to me, I think that’s the secret sauce.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
I keep referencing books, but Cal Newport, from Harvard, in his book Deep Work, talks about how happiness in work comes from having confidence and competence in a skill that you can go do, that people pay you for. And there’s something so contagious and rewarding to what you said, Kevin, of when you have helped somebody else have this true happiness in their career, because they now have the confidence and competence to generate an income for their family. That one is super contagious. I love that you shared that. That’s really, really good.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Dave, what are you seeing on your side?
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
Yeah. Well, first, I love what Hutch said about being the example, being the role model, and also what Kevin said about legacy.
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
I think for a lot of leaders, we know that people join direct selling for a number of different reasons. The money is obviously a big one, but recognition for achievements is a huge one. And the lifestyle, through the trips, through the extra bonuses, through the community that you now become a part of, are all really, really powerful factors. And I think that understanding what motivates any particular leader is not necessarily the same thing. It’s usually a combination of things.
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
Once the financial needs are met, once you’re in that top tier, and your income and your financial security is set, then it comes back to the last question you answered about building those relationships, and how do we communicate, and really understanding what is it that gets people out of bed. Kevin nailed it, if you don’t have an internal motivator to keep going, there’s not much I can do to really … I might motivate you for a week. Maybe you hear something like a powerful talk, or a promotion gets you going for a month.
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
But to really keep people motivated, you have to understand what is that next thing that they want to achieve? And then really it’s just about building on that with them, and saying, “This is what you said to me about building a legacy. This is what you told me you wanted to achieve in your life. I’m just reminding of what you told me, and keeping that there in front of you, so that you can keep working towards that.” Because at the end of the day, I can’t make anybody do anything. They have to find that internally.
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
What’s so interesting is that can change over time. And it’s okay. That’s what you have to remind people at times. You talked about making them dig deeper, Hutch, of getting in their face a little bit.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
It’s because sometimes they’re like, “Yeah, you told me my why. I wanted my church to build two more buildings, and we did it. We did the fundraising campaign, and the buildings are built.” And it’s like, “So what’s next for you? Is that really all there was? Oh, your kid’s college tuitions are covered? Got it. Oh, your grandkids are covered? Got it. Okay, so what is next?” And it’s like, “Oh.”
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
You start to ask, because that’s what’s so incredible about just money in general in the universe, is it’s a multiplier, and so there’s always another level. We’re not going to run out of other levels. What are they going to do? They’re going to print more. If you get all of them, they’re just going to make more, and then you can go figure that out of how to make a difference.
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
Those two words, Ben, are so powerful, what’s next. Because in this business, and we’ve all seen it, people achieve things that they never believed were possible. And then it’s like, “Okay, you did that. What’s next?” And I think human beings are intrinsically looking for, “Okay, what is next? I did that. I can do even more than that.” And I think in our roles, it’s just help them identify what is it, what do you want to do? And I think if you can do that, then it stopped being about money a long time ago, now it’s about legacy, it’s about what else, what’s next? I love the way you said that.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
A keyword we use a lot … My family picks an annual theme, the family theme, my wife and I pick it with our kids every year. This year was stewardship. You look at everything in your life as stewardship, as not yours, but what you’re going to do when you’re entrusted with it for a season. So what’s your role as a spouse? What’s your role as a parent? What’s your role in your occupation? What’s your role with your resources?
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
And when these leaders hit those levels, when they can think of … Immediately, many times it’s, “Oh, I did that. It’s all about me. Look how great I am.” But then you’re like, “Nope, there’s another level above that.” That’s like, “Hey, you got to be a part of that, but how are you going to steward what you were just entrusted with? Now you’re rank seven, you’re super ruby. Awesome. So what are you going to do with the season you’ve been entrusted with? Because it’s also a season.”
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
The thing to remember is, in the good times and the bad, I always say, “The lie is that it’ll be this way forever.” So in the good times and the bad, the lie is it will be this way forever, because the truth is, life has seasons. So as you’re going through this journey, gang, okay, you’re in a really good season right now, so what does that mean for what’s next? Okay, you’re in a really down season right now, you just lost a family member, something happened, oh my gosh. What does that mean about you next?
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
So it’s that reminder of back to long-term focus, and the challenge of either what’s next, or stewardship. It’s a powerful one to lean on.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Well, team, as we wrap into our last few questions, these are kind of the quick fire round, these are the fun ones, and I’m always amazed at the random answers we get, so I love these ones. So we’re just going to go in a circle, but we’ll get with Dave first. What’s your favorite way to celebrate victories with the teams?
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
For me, I want to celebrate victories, anything where we can get the team involved, so it’s not an individual recognition, but we get your people with you, 100%.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. And what have been some of your favorites of that, when you’ve gotten to actually fulfill that? What have been some of the things you’ve gotten to do?
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
The most common one we’ll do is we’ll just get together with the group for dinner and/or drinks. It’s even better if we can do it on an incentive trip, in a nice location with some beach and some sunshine. But just that togetherness, and saying, “Hey, so-and-so may have achieved this, but it was definitely a team effort,” and be able to spread around some of that recognition, share that recognition with the team, just incredibly powerful.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Amen. Love it. Hutch, what’s your favorite way to celebrate some victories?
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
We did a fun thing, we celebrated our fifth year anniversary. We’re still a baby, we’re still in diapers. For our fifth year anniversary, I used a website called Cameo, C-A-M-E-O.com, and so you can hire celebrities to do shout outs. I have a top Spanish leader on my team, who’s actually an avid golfer, and so I hired Sergio Garcia, Masters Champion, to reach out to him, and just give him a shout out, and just say, “Hey, you’re doing great things, and this is your year, stay strong.”
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
I hired Nadia Comaneci, the first female Olympian to achieve a 10, and she did a shout out to one of our Romanian leaders. I had Vicente Fox, the former president of Mexico, reach out to a Mexican leader. So anything that you can do out of the box, out of the ordinary, cameo.com is something I’d recommend.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
That’s hilarious. You have won the cameo.com. My wife hired a fake Cinderella to sing a song to my daughter for her birthday. Yours are 10 times better. That is amazing. That is hilarious. That’s awesome. How about you, Kevin? What’s been your favorite?
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
I can’t follow that. I mean, that’s pretty dang cool. I’m going to have to modify my approach a little bit.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
I like to do things early and often. And I think surprises are a great way to reward and celebrate things. Because a lot of times, things are expected, and I like to do some surprise recognitions, some gifts, some thank yous when they’re not expecting it, by noticing some achievements that they’ve had, and being able to reward them, both on my team, or in the field.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
I think those surprise little moments are really a great way to let people know that you care, and that you’re a part of watching what they do every day, so you can help them succeed. So I like early enough, and then a lot of surprise moments. I’m going to go to cameo.com more often, and there’ll be more drinks by the pool, as Dave does. I think all of those are great.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
By the way, I also hired Kermit the Frog to sing, and I dedicated it to my top Russian leader. She didn’t understand what he was saying, but she loved that Kermit gave the message.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
That is great. One note, as you’re watching, gang, from what actually Kevin just shared, today, more than ever, it’s easy, if you care, to be personal. Just to what Hutch was saying about how personal he’s being with them. And what Kevin is sharing, and Dave. You can have your assistant, or yourself, literally go on their Facebook, literally go on their Pinterest, for just a few moments, and find a very personal way to say thank you. It is so easy today, with the content people are putting out there, of saying thank you.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
I’ve seen executives buy something for one of their children, a leader’s child or something, and all sorts of really cool personal things, where you’re like, “Oh, I didn’t know they were even going through that. Oh, I saw your kid was in …” We had a kid who was getting a surgery, and they got him some stuff to play with in the hospital, and stuff like that.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
It’s those kinds of things that, when you take a moment with those people, you really care, and you’re like, “Hey, are there opportunities to bless?” Whatever you want to call it in your agenda with your assistant, or yourself, is you just take those 15 minutes to do a quick scan on social and be like, “Hey, is there an opportunity to speak into that?” Because the relationship equity, gang, is just huge there. Because you are, it’s a tribe, it’s a family, bring it together.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
All right. Now, my most favorite and awkward question I’ve been asking all year, because we get really random answers on this one, but it’s still fun. We’re going to wrap up our session today with the back in time question. We’re going to go to you first, Kevin.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Knowing everything you know today, so you know what you know today, if you can rewind the clock, go back in time to January 1st, 2020, and tell yourself just one sentence, what would you say?
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
I would say buy more toilet paper and paper towels.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
All right. I thought you were going to say, “Buy Bitcoin.”
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
Bro, no paper towels. No paper towels.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
No. I mean more of a live, laugh, love, right? I think live more, laugh more frequently at yourself, and just love deeper. I think that’s what I’d tell myself on a more personal level, but you still need to have the toilet paper and paper towels.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Heck yeah. Heck yeah. That’s good. How about you, Hutch?
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
Well, it’s a question that I ask my team. I challenge my team, I say, “Has this year been a gift for you, yes or no? And if yes, why? And if not, why not?” And you can tell the leaders that immediately get drawn to sharing with you all the reasons why this past year has been a gift, that they’ve been able to spend more quality time with family, they’ve been able to work on themselves, they’ve been able to get themselves in really good shape.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
And so, that sentence, if I could just turn it around into a question is, life’s a gift, and it’s your choice. And the question, again, I ask my team, Ben, like you’re asking us, is, has this past year been a gift for you, yes or no? And then they tell me yes.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
And I said, “Are you sure? Seriously, it’s been the worst downturn in the history of travel. What’s wrong with you?” And they say, “But Michael, you don’t understand, I’ve been able to grow closer with my team, I’ve been able to do more things with them. Yeah, we haven’t traveled, but we’ve grown stronger, we’ve gotten better, we’ve sharpened our tools, we’ve done more virtual events. And so for that reason, it is a gift.”
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Awesome. Awesome. All right. Well, wrapping us up, Dave, what would you say?
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
I think those are both right on the money. The only other thing I would add to it would be to take advantage of this opportunity, because we’re probably never going to have an opportunity quite like this one, to just look at every single thing that we do and say. What do we need to do, versus what can we drop, and what do we need to start doing?
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
Because so many times in our business, we get stuck in, “We’ve always done X, and what would happen if we stopped doing X?” And I think we probably put too much pressure to continue to do the things we’ve always done. Well, this last year was kind of that hall pass, where we said, “All bets are off. What do we need to do, and how do we make this business work in this brand new environment we have?”
Dave Fleming, CSO Norwex:
Now, we’re coming out of it, take advantage of this opportunity to look at everything we do and say, “What do we have to do? What do we not need to do anymore?” And not be afraid, not be afraid to make some bold decisions.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
I love that, Dave, because you get permission, right? You get permission to … all the sacred cows, all the elephants, whatever you want to call them, that have been around forever, you’re like, “Why were we doing that the whole time? Do we really need that?”
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
It’s really interesting to just see the fruit that’s come out for a lot of people. There’s news of … There’s a number of large direct selling companies in Utah who have literally just gotten rid of their massive customer service offices, and just said, “Hey, those people can work from home. It’s better work-life integration for their families, their kids aren’t going back to school, their homeschooling, trying to double it up. Yeah, they can do that.” I mean, there’s some huge buildings just up, they just built that, no worries, we won’t use it. I was just hearing that yesterday from another friend. I’m like, “Man, it’s incredible to see that.” And there’s a lot there.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Virtual conferences, I had a good friend just let me know that she had over a 100,000 live attendees on her virtual conference for her party planning company. I was like, “Lisa, you go. That’s awesome. Your party planning company had 100,000 dial in live, that’s like more than Trump and Hillary had on the presidential debate on YouTube live. They were stuck at like 67,000 when I watched that years ago.” I always thought that was, wow, I’m on a live webinar with 67,000 people. She had 100,000 on hers. I said, “That’s awesome.”
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
But, team, these are the thoughts that are just so practical. Thank you for being open, gang, just coming from different organizations, different backgrounds, and sharing raw, real stuff. And I know the attendees listening live, and those on the streams, and those that’ll be catching our replay will be grateful.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
One note, before we go, gang, usually we’re spaced exactly a month apart, and September’s event is actually really close this month. It’s on the 10th of September. So our next session is going to be called Engage For Good.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Before we thank our speakers and go, Engage For Good is all about how you tie causes into your direct sales company in a powerful, tasteful way. And we have incredible speakers coming for it. We have Cindy Monroe, who founded Thirty-One Gifts, and grew that company in incredible ways, is going to be on our panel. We have Sam Caster, who ran Mannatech for years, and MannaCare, and today runs Alovea, is going to be on that panel. And then Peter Hirsch, who ran a bunch of companies I could list of off, but everything from my Ibuumerang, to Increase that he just ran.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
We’ll be talking through how to take a cause that’s meaningful … There’s all kinds of studies that millennials want to do it for more than money, they want to know, are you doing good in the world with what you’re doing? And we’re going to be unpacking that on September 10th. It’s going to be a Friday, just like today. Same time, 10:00 AM Pacific, 12:00 noon Central.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
The link is in the forum. If you haven’t joined the Direct Selling Executives Forum yet, it’s free. Go to LinkedIn, type in Direct Selling Executives Forum. Or go to directsellingexecutivesforum.com, which will take you to the LinkedIn group. Or you can search for it on Facebook as well.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
With that, gang, I want to thank you so much for being here today. I can’t thank you enough. And I need to go to cameo.com and get something crazy for my wife. And now that Hutch has turned us onto that, that’s awesome. Maybe they owe you a commission, Hutch, after that.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
I wish they had an [affiliate 00:49:49] model.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
That’s what I was just saying, we don’t have any vendors that participate in the forum, there’s nothing to buy here. As people get to the end of a session, there’s no pitch, there’s nothing. It’s just hanging out and talking about a topic, but there you go, that’s good stuff. Thank you so much for being here today, gang, we appreciate you. Have a wonderful day. All right, we’ll talk soon.
Mike Hutchinson, Founder inCruises:
Thank you, Ben. Kevin and Dave, good meeting you guys. Good weekend. Thanks, everybody.
Kevin Crandall, Head Of Sales Shaklee:
You too, Hutch.
Ben Dixon, CEO NaXum:
Have a blessed day.
Want to learn more about our speakers?
Kevin Crandall, VP of Sales @Shaklee
David Fleming, CSO @Norwex
Michael Hutchinson, Founder @inCruises
